photo: 25 new messages in 14 topics

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Looking for fem to train my fem pet
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/6d4e2c3be1c7dfbd
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 4:30 pm
From: Troia

Whitewater wrote:
> Troia wrote:
>> Whitewater wrote:
>>> taratap@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> subject line says it all. i'm looking for a boston-area fem dom to
>>>> train my fem sub pet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What, you can't do it yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>> Whitewater
>>
>> Well, the concept itself is not so bad -- a service top to sort of
>> "mentor" a new Dom and his new sub, perhaps -- though the execution of
>> the request (here) is of course quite flawed.
>>
>> -- Troia
>
> Mentoring is a whole other animal, though. The original personal struck
> me as the equivalent to the old-fashioned way of training animals --
> "You Buy 'em, We Break 'Em Or Your Money Back -- Give us your
> Horse/Pig/Dog/Whatever for six weeks and we'll give them back to you
> completely trained for all your needs. Included upon your pet's return
> is a list of key words and phrases that we use for training. Upon your
> pet's return to you, you can use our key words and phrases for
> guarenteed success! Your pet will be obedient to the words on the list
> we give you. No need to suffer through training your animal yourself,
> all your training troubles will be over with our training system. After
> six weeks in our hands, you won't recognize your pet!"
>
> Etc.
>
> Seems to me that training of any sort bonds you and your pet together
> and fosters communication, among other benefits. Why on earth would you
> leave such an important thing to a complete stranger? Wouldn't you
> rather train your pet yourself?????
>
> I know I would -- and am, right now, so yes, I am putting my money where
> my mouth is.
>
> Whitewater
>
Well, of course in a general sense I agree. I just read it as more like
going to someone like Shirley for help, advice, and
training-in-training, as it were.

Of course, without much story behind it, there's really no telling.

IAC, it did show a careless disregard to post what I assume is an ad here.

-- Troia

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 7:46 pm
From: fnordikins

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:21:47 -0600, Whitewater wrote:

>
> Seems to me that training of any sort bonds you and your pet together
> and fosters communication, among other benefits. Why on earth would you
> leave such an important thing to a complete stranger? Wouldn't you
> rather train your pet yourself?????
>

Oh my yes. There's something about yanking a choke collar that makes me
feel all domly. Though rewarding her ice cream is even more fun!

Who's Fnordy's widdle Troyawoya? My big scary mean flufferkins with the
big pointy fangipoos?

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TOPIC: Topping and Rope!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/c5831073ff4f8296
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 7:09 pm
From: Cheeky Girl

For all of those who helped me with the rope questions as well as the
topping questions I would like to report that I finally did it! yeah

The answer for me came in the form of bondage! My friend happens to
have quite the rope fetish, so I was able to top her without actually
doing any impact. This works out great for both of us!! I did however
pull out the wartenberg wheel, snake bite kit, and a few other toys out
of the bag.

So over the last several weeks I learned how to do a full body harness
as well as wrist and ankle cuffs. I had her trussed and spread eagle on
the bed willing and waiting.. yummm... Another little thing I learned
is if you put a vibrator or pocket rocket under one of ropes the entire
harness vibrates. Very cool effect indeed!

So again thank you all for your insight and advice!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 1:23 am
From: Stephanie Moore-Fuller

On 2006-12-12, Cheeky Girl <umhal1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> For all of those who helped me with the rope questions as well as the
> topping questions I would like to report that I finally did it! yeah
>
> The answer for me came in the form of bondage! My friend happens to
> have quite the rope fetish, so I was able to top her without actually
> doing any impact. This works out great for both of us!! I did however
> pull out the wartenberg wheel, snake bite kit, and a few other toys out
> of the bag.
>
> So over the last several weeks I learned how to do a full body harness
> as well as wrist and ankle cuffs. I had her trussed and spread eagle on
> the bed willing and waiting.. yummm...

Yet another example that once the people get along and really want to
do something together, it's all in **finding the overlap**!

Thanks so much for reporting back! I especially enjoyed seeing/hearing
that "yummm" as it shows that what you're doing is working just as well
for you as it is for her.

Keep up the good work!

stephanie

--
Stephanie Moore-Fuller smoorefu@blackrose.org Mountain View, CA, USA
"If you beat the shit out of a man, he will learn all about you."

-- Nigel Kent

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 7:38 pm
From: Cheeky Girl

Stephanie Moore-Fuller wrote:

> Yet another example that once the people get along and really want to
> do something together, it's all in **finding the overlap**!
>
> Thanks so much for reporting back! I especially enjoyed seeing/hearing
> that "yummm" as it shows that what you're doing is working just as well
> for you as it is for her.
>
> Keep up the good work!
>
> stephanie
>

Tis true! We had a great time, I was even able to help her get to
subspace. I can't tell you what an awesome feeling that was!!!!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M/s, history and symbolism.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/61734cc1b9b933cf
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 12:18 pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"Troia" wrote

> It's sometimes such a hard point to convey to newer subs -- not just
> having boundaries but that the "Master" needs to use care and the sub
> needs to use her brain

Master or Mistress, sub or switch

> -- especially problematic with those who believe being a "slave" means
> letting the Master define them and having absolutely no free thought or
> will.

..and new folks who want to go straight to M/s may be
quite unsuited to the reality

> I think I like the example because it addresses it in a way that doesn''t
> bring up the more complex issue of abuse.

complex and controversial

Ruth

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 1:37 am
From: SilverOz

In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:06:22 -0800
Troia <troia.legata@gmail.removethis.com> wrote:
>
> It's sometimes such a hard point to convey to newer subs -- not just
> having boundaries but that the "Master" needs to use care and the sub
> needs to use her brain -- especially problematic with those who believe
> being a "slave" means letting the Master define them and having
> absolutely no free thought or will.
>

Dunno... the ones I've met seem to ahve an underlying assumption that
the master will just get them to do and think like they are already.

in other words that the fantasy matches the reality because it's not
the fantasy they say it is....

A similar idea to the one already alluded to, that they are safe to
say "anything" because the master won't ask for something they find it
too hard to do.

Except they can say "give up self" because they are sure it won't be
any such thing, just the enjoyable illusion of same.

SilverOz

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 3:46 pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnens1ui.lgu.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:06:22 -0800
> Troia <troia.legata@gmail.removethis.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's sometimes such a hard point to convey to newer subs -- not just
>> having boundaries but that the "Master" needs to use care and the sub
>> needs to use her brain -- especially problematic with those who believe
>> being a "slave" means letting the Master define them and having
>> absolutely no free thought or will.
>>
>
> Dunno... the ones I've met seem to ahve an underlying assumption that
> the master will just get them to do and think like they are already.

:::smiles:::

Me, too. Or some idealised version thereof.

> in other words that the fantasy matches the reality because it's not
> the fantasy they say it is....

That's part of the thing, isn't it?

> A similar idea to the one already alluded to, that they are safe to
> say "anything" because the master won't ask for something they find it
> too hard to do.

Quite. They have chosen such a Master/Mistress....

> Except they can say "give up self" because they are sure it won't be
> any such thing, just the enjoyable illusion of same.

Gezackly.

Ruth, who neverthelesss does not want to do it at either end :::shrugs:::

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 5:07 am
From: SilverOz

In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:46:46 +1100
Ruth Lawrence <curlygrrrl@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> "SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnens1ui.lgu.zebeej@gmail.com...
>>
>> Dunno... the ones I've met seem to ahve an underlying assumption that
>> the master will just get them to do and think like they are already.
>
>:::smiles:::
>
> Me, too. Or some idealised version thereof.

I found that it worked for me, but I think I was quite clear that was
what was going on.

In that I knew I wouldn't be with somene I didn't trust to do his best
to not cause harm, and to hang about and do his best to fix what he
got wrong.

I also think that while we were doing a lot of playing with control
there was no TPE trappings involved. And the playing showed us both
the limitations we were working under.

I think if the limitations are acknowledged then no problem. It's the
hiding of them with the rhetoric that is bad.

Zebee

SilverOz

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 9:29 pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnense7k.n8e.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:46:46 +1100
> Ruth Lawrence <curlygrrrl@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> "SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnens1ui.lgu.zebeej@gmail.com...
>>>
>>> Dunno... the ones I've met seem to ahve an underlying assumption that
>>> the master will just get them to do and think like they are already.
>>
>>:::smiles:::
>>
>> Me, too. Or some idealised version thereof.
>
> I found that it worked for me, but I think I was quite clear that was
> what was going on.

Yes, this does not surprise me.
>
> In that I knew I wouldn't be with somene I didn't trust to do his best
> to not cause harm, and to hang about and do his best to fix what he
> got wrong.

Even I could handle that...but it doesn't really speak to me as kink.

> I also think that while we were doing a lot of playing with control
> there was no TPE trappings involved. And the playing showed us both
> the limitations we were working under.

:::nods:::

> I think if the limitations are acknowledged then no problem. It's the
> hiding of them with the rhetoric that is bad.

:::nods:::

Absolutely.

It feels like a false piety to me, too.

I was totally ticked off when someone presented this fantasy as both real
and the only BDSM at a newbies night, but of course I'm still digging myself
out of a quagmire of balderdash, lumpy with head-trip clots.

It isn't true, not at all, that having needs and not being an unthinking,
unquestioning fleshly robot is topping from the bottom (a stupid-domly
control ploy, of course).

Ruth (who wishes to avoid ploys at either end or the middle)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: *14 year old breasts video!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b3c56d9cf156ddc2
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 1:29 am
From: "Smiler"

"Stephen Harris" <bdsm@spuddy.org> wrote in message
news:9mjile.aq.ln@spuddy.org...
> tacit <tacitr@aol.com> wrote:
>> and demand the web site be taken down, even if it has, in fact, no
>> kiddie porn.
>
> Oh. I thought it was the video that had been made 14 years ago...
>
> --
> rgds, Stephen "Pleasure, little treasure"
> An Englishman in New York, and loving slave to his Mistress, Tori.
>
> BDSM thoughts, writings, poems and stuff: http://bdsm.spuddy.org/
> Newsgroup charter, FAQs etc at http://bdsm.spuddy.org/newsgroups/

The owner of the breasts is 26 years old.
She didn't get breasts until she was 12.
Therefore, the breasts *are* 14 years old!

QED

Smiler
The godless one

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TOPIC: No, not running.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b0ca96dac3571f43
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 1:30 am
From: "Smiler"

"Tobie" <miztee1958@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aiapn29k23o4ddvfel71c4ipq24jsiueu1@4ax.com...
> On 10 Dec 2006 16:04:59 -0800, "Lynn" <sockermom9@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Last night my dom beat my back raw, then carved his initials into it.
>>Then he sprayed alcohol into the wound and lit it on fire. Done
>>anything kinky lately?"
>
> Ok...Met, my better...I wouldn't go so far as to light it on fire.
>

Not without an extinguisher handy.
Wouldn't want to set my dungeon alight.
Fire can be sooooo dangerous......

Smiler
The godless one

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TOPIC: TPE/ Lifestyle D/s
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/cd52a0411635de18
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 1:42 am
From: Esclave d'Amour

Troia wrote:
> M. Shirley Chong wrote:

>> <quietly applauding you and your responses here>
>
> I have to say I'd "ditto" Shirley on that.
>
> More grace than I can muster, I'm sorry to say.
>
> And if one is talking about "Christian spirit" and such ... well, this
> seems a good example of the best.

Thank you, ever so much, to you, and to Shirley, and to Lynn for your
kind comments. Both my Master and I have found ourselves reduced to
tears by your kindness!

I'm no saint. I still get very very cross with people, but try not to
take it out on them (with the exception of people who are gloating about
beating children, and positing that the world would be better if more
people did the same -- they heard the sharp end of my tongue this
evening, not entirely to my advantage. But they didn't get around to
following through on their threat of shoving my head through the window!)

Three years ago I couldn't possibly have just walked away. I'd have had
to escalate stuff, and there are local newsgroups that (to my chagrin)
are full of my invective. The change has been brought about by some
incredibly good people, mainly belonging to the church I didn't believe
in but wanted to believe in then. A soul-friend, who (amusingly enough)
lurks and occasionally posts in arceo; one of the few female friends
I've ever had; my Master; and a few others.

Thank you, so much, from the bottom of my heart, for saying what you
did. It helps, perhaps more than you can imagine.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 8:23 pm
From: "Renate"

Troia wrote:
> Cleaning up the quoting:
>
> Renate wrote:

> >> I am living it, and have been living it for a year.
> >
> > Did someone radically shorten the calendar by 360 days? At this rate, 3 quick breaths, and I'll be a century old.
>

Thanks, Troia. I had a wtf! moment, when I read that, myself.

Renate

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 9:24 pm
From: "Lynn"

Esclave d'Amour wrote:

> Three years ago I couldn't possibly have just walked away. I'd have had
> to escalate stuff, and there are local newsgroups that (to my chagrin)
> are full of my invective. The change has been brought about by some
> incredibly good people, mainly belonging to the church I didn't believe
> in but wanted to believe in then. A soul-friend, who (amusingly enough)
> lurks and occasionally posts in arceo; one of the few female friends
> I've ever had; my Master; and a few others.

Well, you may be the best example of the good a church can do that I've
yet seen. ;-)

Sometimes I wish I were a nicer person. Sometimes I wish I were a
tougher person. Sometimes I wish I had the nerve to be meaner in real
life, when people treat me badly. I dunno, really.

Lynn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bondage & Fetish Info
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b36ceded909e71
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 5:47 pm
From: "banbear"

Check out www.BunniLuv.com

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TOPIC: Drunko Dean hates his country
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/e618fffae9884f52
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:04 pm
From: journeytroll@yahoo.com

I hope Andrew bans the fat drunkard from his site. What an ugly,
stupid, moron. Plus, he killed those two kids.

Thanks,
Journeytroll

journeytroll@yahoo.com wrote:
> This fat drunk brags about burning the USA flag. Plus, he supports the
> Taliban.
>
> Drunko, needs to stay away from children and alcohol because he abuses
> them both.
>
> Here's his email address for anyone that wants to talk some sense into
> this fat slob.
>
> derbydeano@yahoo.com
>
> Thanks,
> Journeytroll
>
> Joeydelight wrote:
> > They shold look into the background of this piece of crap. I've never
> > read more hateful crap written on the internet about President Bush
> > than this dick!!! Stuart can be a pain in the ass, but he served his
> > country and realizes how far Clinton set us back against terrorism.
> > Journey showed its "true" colors by going through with their concert on
> > 9/11/01. They gave some piece of crap reason, but we all know it came
> > down to the money and Neal paying alimony!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Too bad Lula's such a potty mouth...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/bc192925ca3ab052
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:06 pm
From: journeytroll@yahoo.com

Lula, Journey, and Fatboy Deano are the three biggest jokes all over
the Internet.

I bet they really did meet at an AA meeting or in a probation
department.

Deano's too chicken to post here.

Thanks,
Journeytroll

Joeydelight wrote:
> ...because she's pretty good looking with that kinky hair.
> Unfortunately, she's got that trashy mouth and obviously has no self
> respect staying with that slob Dean. The guy OBVIOUSLY has NO respect
> for women and throws the c-word around like a baseball. I use it but
> only when referring to that jellyfish Andrew.
> I DO feel bad for Lula...Sticking with her alcoholic husband will take
> its toll and she'll start to look worn out before her time. It must be
> tough for her to, having people in her town whisper that she's married
> to a guy who killed two people when he blew through an intersection in
> a train.
> Lula may be beyond help with Deeno brainwashing her and bringing her
> down to his pathetic white-trash level.
> I won't pick on you anymore Lula...you have enough problems in your
> life. I'll say a pray that things get better.
>
> Your Friend,
> NiG

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TOPIC: Hey Lula...Be still you FRAUD!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/1e6a2991c1a65869
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:08 pm
From: journeytroll@yahoo.com

Joe,

Have you noticed the amount of time Deano spends at Melodicrockdotcom
instead of with Lula??? She must suck in bed. Lula spends alot of time
on message boards too. I guess needle dick Deano can't please her.

Thanks,
Journeytroll

Joeydelight wrote:
> I saw your heartwrentching post....
>
> ""As for bringing up my "boyfriend" why not post your accusations where
> he can respond rather than on a site where he is banned?"
>
> Well your drunken slob of a husband isn't banned here....where is he?
> Now you're fighting slob Deeno's battles for him??? Yeah, that doesn't
> surprise me...I called him out and he shriveled up like the coward he
> is. That piece of crap not only has YOU fight his battles for him, but
> he only spews his bullshit on a site where the moderator is spineless.
> He's a woman-hating piece of crap...but you already KNOW that.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Joe

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Neighbors band together to help Stuart's daughter...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/c63814450d0c0e77
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:17 pm
From: Journeytrolls@yahoo.com

Stuart cares more about Ross Valory than his own wife and daughter.
What a loser!!!

Thanks,
Journeytroll

Joeydelight wrote:
> http://shop.cozmikshirts.co.uk/images/designs/Drunkong.jpg
>
> Neighbors of loose cannon dad Stuart and his wife Emily recently
> petitioned the town officials to have this sign erected at the
> intersection near Stuart's home to be aware of the potential road
> hazard.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In his own words, Music makes JSS "An Animal" on stage...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/ae40723bf750b75d
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:18 pm
From: Journeytrolls@yahoo.com

All in all, JSS blows.

Joe, do you know that JSS has an official site. Maybe we should start
posting there.

thanks,
Journeytroll

Joeydelight wrote:
> ...well at least when Neal smartens up and replaces the hack, he can
> hold auditions at the San Diego Zoo and hold out for a baboon who can
> hit high notes!!!!
> Soto...creepy Andrew is protecting him from visiting this site and
> getting a touch of reality!!!
>
> Thanks,
> Mick Jagger

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Updated photo of Strungout Debby...NICE!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/631311f94f87185f
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 6:19 pm
From: Journeytrolls@yahoo.com

Pig Debby is even fatter than 3 months ago.

Thanks,
Journeytroll

Renee wrote:
> Joeydelight wrote:
> > http://www.geocities.com/nana89us/up-women-00225.jpg
> >
> > Congrats Debby! I like what you've done with your hair! Now if you
> > replaced this photo with the one of you and Perry and I'm SURE action
> > will pick up for you!!!
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Your Friend,
> > George Clooney
>
> Awful, just awful.
>
> BR.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/d382003d60406c92
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 8:14 pm
From: "Renate"

Christian subbie wrote:
> Lynn wrote:
> > Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> >
> >> Okay, Lynn gets the gigglefit trophey for the day...
> >>
> > Wow, that's incredibly touching. I want to thank all the little people
> > who made this possible, principle among them Venus and my bag boy.
> >
> Do you have any clue at all what I was alluding to? It is you who are
> the laughing stock, believe me. It is you who looks the fool.

Ahh, but we are laughing *with* Lynn.

As opposed to you, Olympiada/Atlanta/V/Obeauty/et al/ad nauseum,

whom we are laughing *at*.

Renate

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 4:29 am
From: Christian subbie

alcibiades1334@gmail.com wrote:
> Christian subbie wrote:
>
>> Lynn wrote:
>>
>>> Christian subbie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As we all should agree that a slave is her Masters property, and has no
>>>> rights other then the privileges granted by her Master, and the slave
>>>> consents, surrenders and submits completely, voluntary and unconditional
>>>> when accepting her Masters collar, then a Master may do with his slave
>>>> as he alone sees fit, according to his wants and
>>>> needs, as well as his values, principles and beliefs. The Master has the
>>>> final decision in all matters and issues within this power structure.
>>>> Once a slave has accepted her Masters collar and consented to be his
>>>> total and unconditional slave, no further
>>>> consent is needed or required.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It's so nice to see people who are so completely impervious to the
>>> influence of reality. Refreshing, really.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I not only did not write that, I brought that here for critical analysis
>> by the newsgroup. I did not say I agreed with it. Don't assume I agree
>> with something I post.
>> Please.
>>
>
> You're right - what were we thinking? Just because you post someone
> else's writing with no comment or question at all, unexcerpted so we
> know you haven't done any critical reading on it, and then start
> stomping around about how you're a real slave who's been into TPE (or
> APE, APE-TPE, XYZZY-TPE, etc.) from day one, and the rest of us are
> rank amateurs, no one should think you agree with it.
>
>
All right, my comment is on the point about codependency. I used to be
into codependency recovery. Now I find myself in a relationship that is
characterized by some as either codependent and/or abusive. I know it is
not. I am going to have to let go of my old paradigms to be fully open
to this new relationship. Someone should write an essay about how TPE is
*not* codependency.

All I am stating is my orientation. I do not have any physical or
sensual experience, but I have mental and psychological experience,
within a relationship. I am sorry to offend you. I do appreciate you and
encourage you to write more.
> I have GOT to stop making so many snap judgments, and then maybe
> someday I can hope to be as highly respected for my careful, informed
> statements as you are.
>
> alcibiades
>
>
Again, see above. I do respect you. I can not make you trust me so you
are going to have to decide for yourself if you want to tell me about
your relationship or not.

I will clip and comment on the health issues, ie, codependency, if needed.

Christian subbie

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 11 2006 9:29 pm
From: "Lynn"

Christian subbie wrote:
> >
> All right, my comment is on the point about codependency. I used to be
> into codependency recovery. Now I find myself in a relationship that is
> characterized by some as either codependent and/or abusive. I know it is
> not. I am going to have to let go of my old paradigms to be fully open
> to this new relationship. Someone should write an essay about how TPE is
> *not* codependency.

Of course it's codependent. Codependency is a syndrome so vague as to
make astrology look reliable. Pretty much anyone with a modicum of
self-awareness would identify codependent traits in themselves, and
anyone who didn't, of course, is in denial, and therefore codependent.

Lynn

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Monday, December 11, 2006

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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