8 new messages in 4 topics - digest

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* 3 material things related to kink - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/82afd4e182c4165d
* Is the BDSM community really like the mafia? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/ac1698899963703f
* Toy Stores in SF Bay Area? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/3fae46da1e5d4dab
* Thursdays scene report - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/a80ab62dd3e1c0d7

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TOPIC: 3 material things related to kink
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/82afd4e182c4165d
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 8 2006 3:22
am
From: David Weinshenker

Tobie wrote:
>
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 17:27:47 -0500, fnordikins <fnordikins@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >ME!
>
> But then I'd have to explain *here* to her, and I'm not sure she
> was/is ready for that!
>
> Tobie

Well, she _asked_ for you to describe your "participation in
a subculture", didn't she? You'd at least expect her to take
it like a sociologist when that's what she gets!

-dave w

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TOPIC: Is the BDSM community really like the mafia?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/ac1698899963703f
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 7 2006 7:54
pm
From: Troia

Norton Zenger wrote:
> Troia come on down:
>
>> Norton Zenger wrote:
>>> I think to get the definitive answer on that, we'd have to ask the Two Vitos.
>>>
>>> Seriously though, that letter is kind of pathetic, and is totally emblematic
>>> of the kind of "everybody who disagrees with the government is a terrorist"
>>> thinking that is sadly becoming more and more prevalent. I have no idea
>>> whether Mr. Marcus is guilty of what he's accused of or not, but he certainly
>>> deserves a fair trial.
>>>
>> You surprise me; I wouldn't have expected you to bite for what is an
>> obvious troll.
>
> I really don't keep up on the political side of BDSM very much, and in fact
> this is honestly the first I've ever heard of this case, so if there is
> obvious trollery going on, I plead obliviousness. Certainly based on what
> some cursory research revealed I don't believe this case to be trumped-up or
> fraudulent in any way, though.
>

I know you read serially, so you wouldn't have seen that I apologized
for the characterization.

It just seemed like another "one of those", for various reasons.

*sigh*

Sorry.

-- Troia

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 7 2006 10:15
pm
From: "M. Shirley Chong"

Norton Zenger wrote:

> I agree with your analysis, but think that the letter was perhaps poorly
> phrased; my admittedly cursory reading made it look to me like they might be
> implying that the BDSM community (if such a thing exists) would behave in a
> vindictive manner against witnesses, which as a member of _a_ BDSM community I
> naturally took umbrage to. On a closer reading that doesn't hold up, but it
> really could have been phrased better.

I agree that the letter was badly worded. It reads to me like a
piece of boilerplate that the DA's office uses in any request to
protect witness identities.

But hey, judges are used to reading that sort of writing and quite
often issue equally dense and impenetrable pieces of prose
themselves, so I don't think the quality of the writing impedes
either side's case overall.

> But that's a semantic argument. On the material facts of the case, I have no
> objection to the way it's being handled, and believe that Mr. Marcus is indeed
> receiving the fair trial he deserves.

I certainly didn't see any indication that the case is not being
handled in a professional and ethical manner by the DA's office.

Just because someone is engaged in BDSM doesn't mean that they are
automatically a good person. Even being prominent in the local scene
and active in BDSM oriented organizations doesn't mean that a person
can't also be a criminal. Kneejerk defenses of possible offenders
doesn't make anyone look good.

Shirley

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 8 2006 7:03
am
From: "jacqui{JB}"

"M. Shirley Chong" <eithne@netins.net> wrote in message
news:elaen4$cki$1@news.netins.net...

> > I don't know how many people were aware
> > of and/or remember the case of the "brutal
> > master" (Glenn Marcus - his name was already
> > all over the news, so why not mention it?) whose
> > former slave has accused him of everything from
> > human trafficking to attempted murder.

There was some discussion either here or in alt.torture (I'm only just out
of bed and frankly too lazy to look them up) when the story broke.

> I saw quite a lot of testimonials from people
> saying "gosh, I know the guy and while he's
> extreme, he's a stickler for consent." I also saw
> posts from people saying they know him, liked
> him, but felt that he tended to seek out emotionally
> unstable partners (with friends like that, who needs
> enemies?).

Initially, there was quite a bit of confusion, at least the discussions I
read/participated in, because Glenn Marcus characterized himself as "brutal
master" and many people were making the grand leap that it was Brutal Master
(who's posted here a few times and used to be a semi-regular in
alt.torture), of the website http://brutalmaster.com/ -- who is, indeed
extreme and definitely a stickler for consent.

As to the request for limited witness protection, Shirley, I think your
analysis is spot-on. To the OP, *every* community -- especially one as
loosely defined as "the BDSM community" -- is bound to have some unsavory
characters. IIRC, Marcus wasn't really part of an active BDSM community
(although it's possible I'm misremembering), and therefore, in my mind,
couldn't tarnish the BDSM community. Now if you want to point to cases that
damage BDSMers's reputations, look no further than the heads of the
Washington state BDSM club (the name escapes me at the moment) who were
kidnapping and raping Japanese exchange students. Those folks were
well-respected members of their BDSM community.

Anyway ... I can feel a long-winded rant is coming on, so I think I'll stop
now.
-j

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 8 2006 5:21
pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

<spearlm1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165537380.974829.310650@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Norton Zenger wrote:
>> I think to get the definitive answer on that, we'd have to ask the Two
>> Vitos.
>>
>> Seriously though, that letter is kind of pathetic, and is totally
>> emblematic
>> of the kind of "everybody who disagrees with the government is a
>> terrorist"
>> thinking that is sadly becoming more and more prevalent. I have no idea
>> whether Mr. Marcus is guilty of what he's accused of or not, but he
>> certainly
>> deserves a fair trial.
>>
> I'm glad to hear it, but I think the issue goes a little deaper than
> that.
>
> Mr. Marcus has been under house arrest and required to wear an ankle
> bracelet for a year and a half, even though he has extensive ties to
> the community (the Long Island community, I mean) and has posted
> $1million bail. Generally, this is done only when a person is judged a
> danger to society at large.
>
> The basis for deeming him a danger to society are these:
> 1) a single person has made accusations against him (extensive attempts
> to find
> anyone else who will accuse him have come up empty); and
> 2) his relationships often include a dominant, sadistic role; and
> 3) he has communicated with people via internet fora more or less
> dedicated
> to self-identified kinky people; and
> 4) he is involved in BDSM internet pornography.
>
> Except for the first, those criteria describe a strong minority if not
> majority of the regular posters here. The first could easily apply in
> the future to anyone who's had a relationship with a petty or spiteful
> person go bad - and BDSM relationships probably go bad rougly as often
> as vanilla ones do.
>
> Now the government is saying that it's reasonable to suppose that
> witnesses are in danger from the "BDSM community" - and they'd be
> willing to group just about anyone reading this in with the BDSM
> community.
>
> Doesn't that make anyone a little bit nervous?

Actually, no, for this is an international newsgroup.

Ruth, who realised this behaviour may spread, but still

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TOPIC: Toy Stores in SF Bay Area?
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/3fae46da1e5d4dab
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 7 2006 9:57
pm
From: Wolf Whitewater

Troia wrote:

> I got a bit of the giggles when I arrived at the big play party a few
> weeks ago, because there was, indeed, a rack full of all black leather
> coats, and it struck me as so incredibly cliche.
>
> Why *do* people treat it like it's a requirement of uniform, anyway?
>
> (Tobie is exempt from this; she was wearing "real clothes", but that
> was a major exception.)
>
> -- Troia

For me, black leather isn't a uniform :) I truly enjoy it. And black
leather is one of the few combinations of fabric and color that flatters
me. I *love* black leather, and have as much of it around me as
possible, from collars to crops to sheaths for swords to boots to purses
to wallets to hats to gloves to jackets etc etc ad nauseum.

The chances are good, in fact, that in a purely vanilla context whenever
I go out, I'll be wearing something that's both black and leather. Just
because! Haven't analyzed why, particularly. It's enough to know that I
enjoy the look and feel and smell ect.

My dog's new collar is leather :) It looks good on her too! Not black,
though. She is black, so I got her a russet colored collar for contrast.

No uniforms here. I just really like the stuff.

Whitewater

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 8 2006 4:20
am
From: Stephanie Moore-Fuller

On 2006-12-08, Lynn <sockermom9@aol.com> wrote:
>
> NightMist wrote:
>
>> I'm a Dom who is keen on leather and also is a Goth, a rack full of
>> black leather seems perfectly delightful to me. (G)
>
> I love leather, but that much of it kinda makes me feel like slipping
> into a nice yellow sundress.

Ok, *that* I'd like to see!

stephanie

--
Stephanie Moore-Fuller smoorefu@blackrose.org Mountain View, CA, USA
"My father warned me about men and booze, but he never mentioned a word
about women and cocaine."
-- Tallulah Bankhead

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thursdays scene report
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/a80ab62dd3e1c0d7
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 7 2006 8:03
pm
From: Tobie

Odd day.
I didn't get to do the hands only scene I'd planned but I always have
back up plans handy for these times.

I *worked* at play today. That's very unusual.

Philip still has the family stress thing going on that's taking up a
lot of his mind. A mind that is going too many miles a minute isn't
the easiest one to get in happyhappy play space.

I am a determined individual however and wanted to get him to where he
could release some of the stress nd I did *not* want to bind him
because the frees up his anger response and I didn't want the play to
bring on anger. I wanted him to do his good three stage release,
First comes the 3 second relax, second comes the laughter, third comes
the tears.
Taking him to tears has become a steady diet for play as he goes
through this family based hard time. I'm ok with that.
I'm pretty much ok with what ever it takes to get him to have that
relaxed look 15 minutes after play is over.

I had him on the floor on a blanket and gave him a good rub down with
a lot of fingernails. He was barely responding, he was taking
cleansing breaths and trying hard ( which was not the goal, a bottom
who has to *try* to get in to mental playspace is going to have to
fight several personal battles during a scene in my experience ).

I gave up on the hands only at the point and reached for fast pain
that I could play over and over while I worked on different places,
clothespins. Just one to the ear to begin with and when that didn't
phase him, a line up the back of his arm while I used the big wooden
spoon on his butt.
It was a very delicate balance.
Hurt him untill he just started fighting and then ramp it back down,
them hurt him untill he started fighting again.
Clothespins on the back of his scrotum, and butt cheeks while I caned
him, clothespins close to his anus while I scratched him, pinches to
the back of his arms while I caned him calm again.
A steady stream of distracting activities so that he'd have to
concentrate on one or the other and then take him back down a notch
when his anger surfaced.
I steadily worked him up but never let the anger build high enough for
him to act on it, I played a pain tide on him and made the waves ebb
and surge and steadily built up, but wouldn't allow it to crest and
crash over.
I stood over him and took a light flogger to him and hit his left
shoulder on the down swing, right butt cheek on the up swing, right
shoulder on the down swing, left butt cheek on the up swing.
( I have a shattered left rotator cuff and I'm left handed, flogging
is hard for me to do for very long and if I do it for too long, the
shoulder will slide out of socket and then it's a pain to get back in
) I did that for a while and them switched to one of his WIAN heavy
floggers and worked him with that one. What a lovely sound! Then I
went with one that is rather like very heavy boot lacing leather
strips.
By then I was aching so I went back to pinches and traded the canes
for the large leather paddle. A few different random hits with other
toys now and then just to give him a hard time.
I asked how he was doing three times which is pushing a personal limit
for me, once, maybe twice should be enough. Three is starting to just
get distracting to the bottom.
I finally had him to the point where I thought I could push him over
and we did the deep breathing endorphin push.
Deep breath.
one
two
threeWHAM

It took 4 and he started laughing.

YAY!!!! ( I was very proud )

6 and he was fully compliant and just acccepting the blows with hard
expulsions of air.

On the 7th he curled up and softly shook and his wall had been
breached.

I covered him up and skritched his scalp with my nails and stroked his
face...he started cursing and venting about the family issue and I
made sounds here and there but tried not to talk and interupt his
venting.
And then he cried.

When someone is crying I supposed it isn't the ideal time to jump up
and down yelling 'who da man!' over getting them there so I refrained.

I thought about it briefly though!

Tobie

The Dip in the Dip Corps
SSBB Diplomatic Corps
Portland Oregon

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