5 new messages in 4 topics - digest

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm

soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/d382003d60406c92
* M/s, history and symbolism. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/61734cc1b9b933cf
* Sexy UK Girls reveals their Panties! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/e4bc8c31a8776a07
* Nondefined structure - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/7dabc9dfacb3ee63

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TOPIC: Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/d382003d60406c92
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 7:31
am
From: Christian subbie

Kara wrote:
> I don't think anyone, but people like extreme feminists, Christians,
> moralists etc, actually think of BDSM as abuse.
Not all Christians think of BDSM as abuse.
>
> <snip>
>
> I will go as far as to suggest that anyone who would willingly
> enslave themselves without any way of getting out of it, in todays
> society, has mental problems, and no one should agree to take on such
> a person as their slave.
So do you think that all married people "has mental problems" (sic)?
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 6:42
pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"David Weinshenker" wrote

> Hmmm... maybe in a total D/S or "power exchange" context one could view
> the question of abuse the same way one would view it with, say, a horse
> or a piece of machinery: something like "don't break your toys, and you
> will be able to play with them again."

A horse is *so* not machinery, though.

> Does that make any sense? I may totally own something, it may be
> absolutely
> mine to use by any legitimate standard, and yet I still may distinguish
> between using it well and abusing it. (Substitute "someone" for
> "something",
> and include "by his or her consent" in the "any legitimate standard" part,
> and it still applies I think.)

I apply different values when it's alive. The closer to sentient it is -by
any reasonable standard-, the more heavily I regard my responsibility.

I wouldn't usually care much if I lost some object worth $2, but would feel
bad if a $2 goldfish died due to my ignorance or laxity.

Ruth, chanting "people are not things, oh my, oh no"

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TOPIC: M/s, history and symbolism.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/61734cc1b9b933cf
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 6:54
pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnensluq.o4p.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:29:19 +1100
> Ruth Lawrence <curlygrrrl@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> "SilverOz" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnense7k.n8e.zebeej@gmail.com...
>>>
>>> In that I knew I wouldn't be with somene I didn't trust to do his best
>>> to not cause harm, and to hang about and do his best to fix what he
>>> got wrong.
>>
>> Even I could handle that...but it doesn't really speak to me as kink.
>>
>
> That wasn't the kink really :)

Right!

> His was control. The getting of someone to do things for him almost
> as a reflex rather than as a considered action. A pure "training"
> idea in a way.

:::nods:::

As a dom, mine is erotic power :::looks a wee bit embarrassed:::

I do like to mentor, too, not as kink, but it can feed a sub's kink.

> He did, after all, write a book about it :)

aha!

> (Which is to be published by Jack Rimilla soon)

Good! I own lotsa BDSM books :-)

> It isn't my main kink either, hence we parted as we had gone as far
> as we could together.
>
> THe kink wasn't fear or resistance, although his had overcoming
> resistance a bit I think. Not overbearing or breaking, but teaching
> and controlling and authority. Which don't really need to be about
> harming or not fixing

Yup..I think I get this enough to have a bit of a feel for it (unlike some
other perfectly fine kinks).

> When I was mastering my horse, no point in facing her with a job she
> couldn't do, or damaging her. I had to train her to do what I wanted
> and be realistic about her abilities. Overworking her, or losing her
> trust by overfacing her would be silly.

Indeed, and unkind.

> And not a mark of my mastery
> but the reverse. People who ruin horses are despised.

Rightly so, IMNSHO.

> If I did make
> a mistake and injure her or mess up her training, then it was my job
> to pay the vet bills or go back to the beginning and get it right.

Exactly.

> I can't see where breaking or harming are particularly kinky myself.
> They seem to me to be a failure not a desired endpoint :)

Maybe it's unsocialised sadism on occasion, ya know?

> Fear can be a kink, although not one I have. I am not sure it can be
> more than a "not really scared just the illusion of it" endpoint in
> any long term relationship.

I can like a frisson of fear, fear that isn't realistic (as when I think my
spinal fluid will run out my heels due to standing near a visual precipice,
as in a plate glass window). I play with it a bit, I admit, on my own.

> I see the horse or dog analogy working much better for the reality of
> D&S then most of the leather and whip and bad B movie ones that
> abound.

Ugh!

Oh, pr0n is pr0n. Stick books are stick books, even when written by Laura
Antoniou.

part of me wants to say 'but we are all so much more than that, in the end'.

Ruth

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TOPIC: Sexy UK Girls reveals their Panties!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/e4bc8c31a8776a07
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 12:11
am
From: "j23james@gmail.com"

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TOPIC: Nondefined structure
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/7dabc9dfacb3ee63
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 12 2006 7:17
pm
From: "Ruth Lawrence"

"Tobie" <miztee1958@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8lsn29kduedv06m1cj9671tuf4c1dqqhb@4ax.com...
>A couple of folks were chatting with Philip this evening about our
> relationship. They were wanting him to define it for them.

uh-huh...

> Just about all he could do was assert that he wasn't a slave, and he
> wasn't owned.
> We've never tried to define it in current yet ever changing kink terms
> to fit the masses.

Me, I think that's a Good Thing.

Should we be playing for ouselves, or some imaginary powers that be?

>He submits to me. He can say no if he wants to.
> I'll generally do what I want to do any way, and he'll generally
> say...see what saying no got me?
> I listen to tone of course.
> I watch his eyes and for his own small signs of personal discomfort
> with a given situation.

This is clear from your reports :-)

> I try to be reasonable, unless I'm playing SDS on him.
> He's got the option of opting out of anything at any time, all he has
> to do is safeout.
> I say he's mine, he says he's mine, past that there is no set
> structure or protocol. It just doesn't seem to be needed.

To me, that's very refreshing.

There are winds of change, but my own Scene down here is too
small, and thus tends to be conformist and judgemental in parts.

Ruth IMO etc etc

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