25 new messages in 7 topics - digest
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Looking for 24/7 slave (UK) into humiliation - 3 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/a3944e65bdd849fc
* OT Grisoft AVG users, false postives - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/dc408023ce125efe
* *14 year old breasts video! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b3c56d9cf156ddc2
* Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/d382003d60406c92
* No, not running. - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b0ca96dac3571f43
* TPE/ Lifestyle D/s - 9 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/cd52a0411635de18
* Energy Policy: was: OT - YKIOK? (politics) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/461d2e161a0a2e8b
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking for 24/7 slave (UK) into humiliation
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/a3944e65bdd849fc
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:06 pm
From: "Brian Downstairs"
Hmm sounds a bi shallow to me. Things like limits respected etc seem not to
be there.
Brian
--
mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk
I hope I grow on you...
I'm a Fungi!!!
Blindness is a way of life.
<autumnsunray@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1165691686.439250.86920@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am a successful 27 yrs old Master living in the home counties (UK). I
> prefer women who are older than me. I am experienced and confident
> enough to control and treat them the way they deserve it.
>
> I am into D/s and enjoy humiliation (I am a mean, fat bastard and
> always find ways to make a slave feel low), bondage, role play,
> spanking/whipping and am open to try new things that sound fun.
>
> I am currently single and ultimately look for a 24/7 slave who is able
> to totally submit and accept my will and wishes as hers. An online
> relationship and little adventures are ok for me, too.
>
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:07 pm
From: "Brian Downstairs"
Not too good at reading charters, or working out how to post just one
message though.
Brian
--
mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk
I hope I grow on you...
I'm a Fungi!!!
Blindness is a way of life.
<autumnsunray@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1165691723.820493.37630@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>I am a successful 27 yrs old Master living in the home counties (UK). I
> prefer women who are older than me. I am experienced and confident
> enough to control and treat them the way they deserve it.
>
> I am into D/s and enjoy humiliation (I am a mean, fat bastard and
> always find ways to make a slave feel low), bondage, role play,
> spanking/whipping and am open to try new things that sound fun.
>
> I am currently single and ultimately look for a 24/7 slave who is able
> to totally submit and accept my will and wishes as hers. An online
> relationship and little adventures are ok for me, too.
>
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:09 pm
From: "Brian Downstairs"
I spotted the currently in there as well. My mother used to have a phrase
which said.
and what did your last slave die of?
Brian
--
mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk
I hope I grow on you...
I'm a Fungi!!!
Blindness is a way of life.
"Troia" <troia.legata@gmail.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:457b10bd$0$97230$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
> autumnsunray@googlemail.com wrote:
>> I am a successful 27 yrs old Master living in the home counties (UK). I
>> prefer women who are older than me. I am experienced and confident
>> enough to control and treat them the way they deserve it.
>>
>> I am into D/s and enjoy humiliation (I am a mean, fat bastard and
>> always find ways to make a slave feel low), bondage, role play,
>> spanking/whipping and am open to try new things that sound fun.
>>
>> I am currently single and ultimately look for a 24/7 slave who is able
>> to totally submit and accept my will and wishes as hers. An online
>> relationship and little adventures are ok for me, too.
>>
>
> Intentionally left intact.
>
> The OP wrote:
>
> > I am currently single
> ...
>
> Gee, I can't imagine why!
>
>
> -- Troia
> lazily leaving the fun explaining to others
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Grisoft AVG users, false postives
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/dc408023ce125efe
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:10 pm
From: "Brian Downstairs"
Hmm, nothing too annoying here as yet.
Brian
--
mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk
I hope I grow on you...
I'm a Fungi!!!
Blindness is a way of life.
"Markem" <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spnln2t0b5mb2o1rlfle67ha8k7b3abgs6@4ax.com...
> Brian Downstairs wrote:
>
> " I assume you are
> using the latest 7.5 engine?"
>
> Yes. From what I have read out on the Web, it seems as the latest
> update is the problem. Hopefully they are hard at work figuring it out
> and a new update will fix it. I pray they do not rush something out
> there in a panic. My setting are generally set to maximum or KILL KILL
> KILL.
>
> Markem
> (sixoneeight) = 618
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 2:12 pm
From: Markem
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:10:52 GMT, "Brian Downstairs"
<mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Hmm, nothing too annoying here as yet.
New update seems much better.
Markem
(sixoneeight) = 618
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 4:19 pm
From: rushomancy@gmail.com (Norton Zenger)
Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> come on down:
>Well I was streamlining SP2 and Win XP Pro, AVG (paid) says virus oh
>my. Well they are having problems at Grisoft and I know I would like
>to torture a few of them grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Damn, I've been using AVG Free. Can you or someone else recommend a (free)
alternative?
--
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY!
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY!
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY!
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 9:56 pm
From: bojimbo26@aol.com
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:19:18 -0500, rushomancy@gmail.com (Norton
Zenger) wrote:
>Markem <markem(sixoneeight)@hotmail.com> come on down:
>
>>Well I was streamlining SP2 and Win XP Pro, AVG (paid) says virus oh
>>my. Well they are having problems at Grisoft and I know I would like
>>to torture a few of them grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
>
>Damn, I've been using AVG Free. Can you or someone else recommend a (free)
>alternative?
go to download page and get the free home
edition . Need to register (free) up to/within 60 days and then
re-register every year.
Jim
==============================================================================
TOPIC: *14 year old breasts video!
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b3c56d9cf156ddc2
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:13 pm
From: "Brian Downstairs"
Well I don't believe the message either, or I think we would not be having
so much fun, we would treat it as serious and report it some place.
Brian
--
mildew_spores@blueyonder.co.uk
I hope I grow on you...
I'm a Fungi!!!
Blindness is a way of life.
"tacit" <tacitr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:tacitr-011159.14151009122006@news.lga.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <45793864$0$9771$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> "Ruth Lawrence" <curlygrrrl@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> The interest I have is in the perps being locked away (for fourteen
>> years,
>> I trust)
>
> In this case, there are no "perps." This is a straightforward"joe job."
> The person who posted the newsgroup message is trying to get people
> angry and to get that blog shut down, for whatever reason. Perhaps he
> has a beef with the blog owner, or whatever.
>
> Joe jobbers rely on the fact that people tend, in absence of any
> contrary evidence, to believe whatever they are told. If someone is told
> "this Web site has kiddie porn," then people will tend to get up in arms
> and demand the web site be taken down, even if it has, in fact, no
> kiddie porn.
>
> --
> Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink:
> all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
> Nanohazard, Geek shirts, and more: http://www.villaintees.com
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/d382003d60406c92
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 8:26 pm
From: Christian subbie
alcibiades1334@gmail.com wrote:
> Christian subbie wrote:
>
>> Defining Abuse in Absolute and Total Power Exchange
>>
>> By Master Eso © 2005
>>
>
> <snip of obnoxious CHUDWAH nonsense and TLA-coinage>
>
What is TLA?
> Well, if he rejects SSC as too subjective, rejects considerations of
> law and medical health as not subjective enough, and says "abuse is the
> most abused term in the English language," then he must be the ideal
> Twue Dom to produce guidelines for our little O (or whoever she is
> today). She has demonstrated such adamantine psychological strength
> that I'm sure she won't be horribly damaged by entering into a
> relationship on these terms.
>
> Good luck with that, and thanks for illuminating the rest of us as to
> how it ought to be done!
>
> alcibiades
>
I got this message from a submissives group and brought it here for
critique. This is not from my dom, I guess that is what he is. Frankly
the submissive community is concerned about me.
I am not O. I am not allowed to go by my Christian name. O is a
dimunitive of that name.
Please do not underestimate my psychological strength. I have withstood
the criticism of the church, and the bdsm subculture to submit to this man.
I was already damaged before entering into this relationship. This man
is healing me, and apparently, he is the only one who can do it.
I will leave that submissives group if these groups recommend it.
Apparently my dom, I choke on that term, wants these groups to be my
home groups. We tried out a lot and apparently this is where I have
landed for now. These are my perceptions, they may not be his.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 2:34 pm
From: "Lynn"
Christian subbie wrote:
> As we all should agree that a slave is her Masters property, and has no
> rights other then the privileges granted by her Master, and the slave
> consents, surrenders and submits completely, voluntary and unconditional
> when accepting her Masters collar, then a Master may do with his slave
> as he alone sees fit, according to his wants and
> needs, as well as his values, principles and beliefs. The Master has the
> final decision in all matters and issues within this power structure.
> Once a slave has accepted her Masters collar and consented to be his
> total and unconditional slave, no further
> consent is needed or required.
It's so nice to see people who are so completely impervious to the
influence of reality. Refreshing, really.
Lynn
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 10:45 pm
From: Christian subbie
Lynn wrote:
> Christian subbie wrote:
>
>
>> As we all should agree that a slave is her Masters property, and has no
>> rights other then the privileges granted by her Master, and the slave
>> consents, surrenders and submits completely, voluntary and unconditional
>> when accepting her Masters collar, then a Master may do with his slave
>> as he alone sees fit, according to his wants and
>> needs, as well as his values, principles and beliefs. The Master has the
>> final decision in all matters and issues within this power structure.
>> Once a slave has accepted her Masters collar and consented to be his
>> total and unconditional slave, no further
>> consent is needed or required.
>>
>
> It's so nice to see people who are so completely impervious to the
> influence of reality. Refreshing, really.
>
> Lynn
>
>
I not only did not write that, I brought that here for critical analysis
by the newsgroup. I did not say I agreed with it. Don't assume I agree
with something I post.
Please.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 2:56 pm
From: alcibiades1334@gmail.com
Christian subbie wrote:
> Lynn wrote:
> > Christian subbie wrote:
> >
> >
> >> As we all should agree that a slave is her Masters property, and has no
> >> rights other then the privileges granted by her Master, and the slave
> >> consents, surrenders and submits completely, voluntary and unconditional
> >> when accepting her Masters collar, then a Master may do with his slave
> >> as he alone sees fit, according to his wants and
> >> needs, as well as his values, principles and beliefs. The Master has the
> >> final decision in all matters and issues within this power structure.
> >> Once a slave has accepted her Masters collar and consented to be his
> >> total and unconditional slave, no further
> >> consent is needed or required.
> >>
> >
> > It's so nice to see people who are so completely impervious to the
> > influence of reality. Refreshing, really.
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> >
> I not only did not write that, I brought that here for critical analysis
> by the newsgroup. I did not say I agreed with it. Don't assume I agree
> with something I post.
> Please.
You're right - what were we thinking? Just because you post someone
else's writing with no comment or question at all, unexcerpted so we
know you haven't done any critical reading on it, and then start
stomping around about how you're a real slave who's been into TPE (or
APE, APE-TPE, XYZZY-TPE, etc.) from day one, and the rest of us are
rank amateurs, no one should think you agree with it.
I have GOT to stop making so many snap judgments, and then maybe
someday I can hope to be as highly respected for my careful, informed
statements as you are.
alcibiades
==============================================================================
TOPIC: No, not running.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/b0ca96dac3571f43
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 4:35 pm
From: fnordikins
The One of Many Nyms said:
> I just got a message from someone that told me to stay in these two
> groups and make amends.
In my opinion, which I am sure is shared by some and not by others:
You can stay this group, or you can make amends, but it's quite unlikely
you can do both.
Likewise, you can obey "someone" or you can make amends by leaving this
group alone, but you can't do both.
I seriously doubt that "someone" thinks you will make amends to this group
by continuing to post here. And if "someone" thinks so, then "someone"
mistaken.
For the godzillionth time,
*plonk* *plonk* *plonkity* *plonk*
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 9:44 pm
From: Christian subbie
fnordikins wrote:
> The One of Many Nyms said:
>
>
>> I just got a message from someone that told me to stay in these two
>> groups and make amends.
>>
>
>
> In my opinion, which I am sure is shared by some and not by others:
>
> You can stay this group, or you can make amends, but it's quite unlikely
> you can do both.
>
> Likewise, you can obey "someone" or you can make amends by leaving this
> group alone, but you can't do both.
>
> I seriously doubt that "someone" thinks you will make amends to this group
> by continuing to post here. And if "someone" thinks so, then "someone"
> mistaken.
>
> For the godzillionth time,
>
> *plonk* *plonk* *plonkity* *plonk*
>
I am staying here out of obedience. I realize a lot of people, even
slaves, think this relationship is extreme, but that is my choice to
make, and I am choosing it. I thought we were not supposed to judge each
other's kink, right?
I am feeling annoyed that some people in these groups are being so
bigoted about this whole situation.
I choose to stay and obey.
I am wondering what these groups think about internal enslavement? I am
going to be posting an article or link once I finish one. Critical
analysis is requested of what I will post.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 4:57 pm
From: kest
fnordikins <fnordikins@yahoo.com> scrawled:
> The One of Many Nyms said:
>
>> I just got a message from someone that told me to stay in these two
>> groups and make amends.
>
>
> In my opinion, which I am sure is shared by some and not by others:
>
> You can stay this group, or you can make amends, but it's quite
> unlikely you can do both.
Yes, its quite the catch-22, isn't it.
k
==============================================================================
TOPIC: TPE/ Lifestyle D/s
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/cd52a0411635de18
==============================================================================
== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 9:54 pm
From: Christian subbie
I believe I said when I first started posting in ssbb that I was
interested in TPE. People humiliated and scorned me. I meant what I
said. That should be evident from my posts. There seems to be a
conflict, still, between TPE and SSBB. That is my kink. That is what I
need to be happy. I would appreciate it if people would suspend judgment
for as long as I am required to be here. Thank you. Here is the post
from Steven Davis. I like his writing. It suits me and fits me.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/msg/851f35a481a438a1
I am feeling very annoyed and irritated with the way people are
humiliating me, scorning me, and paying negative attention to me. I
would leave these groups if allowed to but right now I am commanded to
stay here, so here I am, like it or not.
I am *quite* capable of emotionally and mentally giving consent *and* I
am of sound mind *and* I understand what it means to be a slave.
*Please* stop humiliating me, scorning me and paying negative attention
to me. It *greatly* displeases me. Thank you.
Atlanta
== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 10:25 pm
From: "Subdued"
> I am feeling very annoyed and irritated with the way people are
> humiliating me, scorning me, and paying negative attention to me. I would
> leave these groups if allowed to but right now I am commanded to stay
> here, so here I am, like it or not.
>
> I am *quite* capable of emotionally and mentally giving consent *and* I am
> of sound mind *and* I understand what it means to be a slave. *Please*
> stop humiliating me, scorning me and paying negative attention to me. It
> *greatly* displeases me. Thank you.
> Atlanta
Well as the old saying goes: "If you can't stand the heat get out of the
kitchen." I really don't think that anyone here would really miss you all
that much. I can only speak for myself however. If you could for once say
something constructive instead of all that psycho-babble we all might listen
and treat you with more respect. Try staying on topic for a change and quit
being so far out there! Most of us are average "Joes" here and enjoy talking
about BDSM plain and simple. As you must read this group we are all pretty
much civil to one another unless someone gets out of line. Take some time
for Christ sake and smell the roses!
Dave
== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 2:30 pm
From: "Lynn"
Christian subbie wrote:
> I believe I said when I first started posting in ssbb that I was
> interested in TPE. People humiliated and scorned me. I meant what I
> said. That should be evident from my posts. There seems to be a
> conflict, still, between TPE and SSBB. That is my kink. That is what I
> need to be happy. I would appreciate it if people would suspend judgment
> for as long as I am required to be here.
I think that whoever is "requiring" you to be here wants you to be
treated badly. What other possible reason could he have to making you
stay?
Lynn
== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 10:35 pm
From: Christian subbie
Subdued wrote:
>> I am feeling very annoyed and irritated with the way people are
>> humiliating me, scorning me, and paying negative attention to me. I would
>> leave these groups if allowed to but right now I am commanded to stay
>> here, so here I am, like it or not.
>>
>> I am *quite* capable of emotionally and mentally giving consent *and* I am
>> of sound mind *and* I understand what it means to be a slave. *Please*
>> stop humiliating me, scorning me and paying negative attention to me. It
>> *greatly* displeases me. Thank you.
>> Atlanta
>>
>
>
> Well as the old saying goes: "If you can't stand the heat get out of the
> kitchen." I really don't think that anyone here would really miss you all
> that much. I can only speak for myself however. If you could for once say
> something constructive instead of all that psycho-babble we all might listen
> and treat you with more respect. Try staying on topic for a change and quit
> being so far out there! Most of us are average "Joes" here and enjoy talking
> about BDSM plain and simple. As you must read this group we are all pretty
> much civil to one another unless someone gets out of line. Take some time
> for Christ sake and smell the roses!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
That message did not address my subject at all. I am here out of
obedience to someone else, not to please myself. Now, I wish to discuss
TPE. So, let's start. Anyone here in a TPE relationship?
Atlanta
== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 10:44 pm
From: Christian subbie
Lynn wrote:
> Christian subbie wrote:
>
>> I believe I said when I first started posting in ssbb that I was
>> interested in TPE. People humiliated and scorned me. I meant what I
>> said. That should be evident from my posts. There seems to be a
>> conflict, still, between TPE and SSBB. That is my kink. That is what I
>> need to be happy. I would appreciate it if people would suspend judgment
>> for as long as I am required to be here.
>>
>
> I think that whoever is "requiring" you to be here wants you to be
> treated badly. What other possible reason could he have to making you
> stay?
>
> Lynn
>
>
I told you, that person requires that I demonstrate my ability to relate
to people on a personal level. Now, can we please discuss TPE. I am
going to provide a quote for you.
Let's start here.
> However, a great many (though by no means all) TPEers are
> immensely obnoxious, superior, and dissmissive of other styles.
> This may, to some extent, be explained (though not excused) by
> the frequency with which they are met with misunderstanding
> or hostility, by people either informing them that their
> kink is impossible fantasy, or claiming that they are either
> abusers or weak and unhealthy doormats (which is to say that
> some BDSMers regard TPEers very much as ES regards BDSMers)).
> But it doesn't help their cause very much.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/msg/851f35a481a438a1
Steven was absolutely correct. I have been met with misunderstanding and
hostility from the BDSM community from the get go. Not the slaving
community, however. I have had the "weak and unhealthy doormat" label
hurled at me in my marriage, from that girl who *lived* with us, who
felt my marriage was all about power and domination, in other words my
ex husband over me. I *never* stated he was sexually submissive. He is
*quite* sexually dominant and quite *not* matched to my kink. I had to
explain that to him yesterday afternoon, and, again, this morning. That
was the whole reason behind the Venus in Furs nym. My ex emotionally
battered me into taking the dominant role.
And the other person has been accused of being an abuser by many who do
not know him, as I have been accused of being an abuser as well.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of this debate, but that is what we do
here, so be it.
I am not going to get into the specifics of my kink. It has been made
clear that includes verbal abuse, humiliation, scorn, bondage. I thought
we did not judge each other's kink here. Was I wrong?
== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 3:00 pm
From: Troia
Christian subbie wrote:
...
> I told you, that person requires that I demonstrate my ability to relate
> to people on a personal level.
So when are you planning to start? Or to at least put a smidge of
effort into it?
> Now, can we please discuss TPE.
Apparently not. Imagine that!
See, you *still* don't get to define and determine what is discussed
here, no matter how many times you try to. And your efforts to
"discuss" or "debate" this old-hat, inaccurate, unrealistic material
that *you* just discovered ... are simply a waste of time.
We're living it; we don't need to debate whatever BS material you've
dug up on the web today that happens to strike you for the moment as the
One Twue Way.
> Frankly, I am sick and tired of this debate, but that is what we do
> here, so be it.
No, it's what you try to do here, sometimes successfully and sometimes not.
We discuss reality of BDSM play and lifestyle, post and read scene
reports, swap recipes, or whatever happens to suit us.
Your efforts to redefine "what we do here" to match your bizarre world
view ... well, let's just say you've failed once again.
>
> I am not going to get into the specifics of my kink. It has been made
> clear that includes verbal abuse, humiliation, scorn, bondage. I thought
> we did not judge each other's kink here. Was I wrong?
You're pretty much *always* wrong every time you start a sentence with
"I thought we ..." or "I thought this group ..." Haven't you noticed
that yet?
-- Troia
== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 11:10 pm
From: Christian subbie
Troia wrote:
> Christian subbie wrote:
> ...
>> I told you, that person requires that I demonstrate my ability to
>> relate to people on a personal level.
>
> So when are you planning to start? Or to at least put a smidge of
> effort into it?
Fuck off. That is what I have been doing all day. You keep writing
message after message after message to me, debating me. Cut it out.
>
>> Now, can we please discuss TPE.
>
> Apparently not. Imagine that!
>
> See, you *still* don't get to define and determine what is discussed
> here, no matter how many times you try to. And your efforts to
> "discuss" or "debate" this old-hat, inaccurate, unrealistic material
> that *you* just discovered ... are simply a waste of time.
>
> We're living it; we don't need to debate whatever BS material you've
> dug up on the web today that happens to strike you for the moment as
> the One Twue Way.
You are seriously flaming me. I did not just dig this up. I belong to a
slavery community that I have belonged to for quite some time. You
insult my whole community.
I am living it, and have been living it for a year.
I am really insulted by you.
>
>> Frankly, I am sick and tired of this debate, but that is what we do
>> here, so be it.
>
> No, it's what you try to do here, sometimes successfully and sometimes
> not.
>
> We discuss reality of BDSM play and lifestyle, post and read scene
> reports, swap recipes, or whatever happens to suit us.
>
> Your efforts to redefine "what we do here" to match your bizarre world
> view ... well, let's just say you've failed once again.
You judge me that I am not in the lifestyle. Remember how furious I was
at being outed? Frankly I don't see how being here benefits me, but this
is not about me, this is about him. Frankly I am sick and tired of you,
personally. I let that other person go that was helping me to deal with
you for the sake of the one who has authority over me, otherwise you can
be sure I would speaking to him about you.
>>
>> I am not going to get into the specifics of my kink. It has been made
>> clear that includes verbal abuse, humiliation, scorn, bondage. I
>> thought we did not judge each other's kink here. Was I wrong?
>
> You're pretty much *always* wrong every time you start a sentence with
> "I thought we ..." or "I thought this group ..." Haven't you noticed
> that yet?
>
> -- Troia
That is sarcasm, was I wrong? That is rhetoric. I really don't enjoy
talking to you *at all*. I find you *most* unpleasant.
== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 3:25 pm
From: "Subdued"
"Troia" <troia.legata@gmail.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:457b4026$0$97254$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
> Christian subbie wrote:
> ...
>> I told you, that person requires that I demonstrate my ability to relate
>> to people on a personal level.
>
> So when are you planning to start? Or to at least put a smidge of effort
> into it?
>
>> Now, can we please discuss TPE.
>
> Apparently not. Imagine that!
>
> See, you *still* don't get to define and determine what is discussed here,
> no matter how many times you try to. And your efforts to "discuss" or
> "debate" this old-hat, inaccurate, unrealistic material that *you* just
> discovered ... are simply a waste of time.
>
> We're living it; we don't need to debate whatever BS material you've dug
> up on the web today that happens to strike you for the moment as the One
> Twue Way.
>
>> Frankly, I am sick and tired of this debate, but that is what we do here,
>> so be it.
>
> No, it's what you try to do here, sometimes successfully and sometimes
> not.
>
> We discuss reality of BDSM play and lifestyle, post and read scene
> reports, swap recipes, or whatever happens to suit us.
>
> Your efforts to redefine "what we do here" to match your bizarre world
> view ... well, let's just say you've failed once again.
>>
>> I am not going to get into the specifics of my kink. It has been made
>> clear that includes verbal abuse, humiliation, scorn, bondage. I thought
>> we did not judge each other's kink here. Was I wrong?
>
> You're pretty much *always* wrong every time you start a sentence with "I
> thought we ..." or "I thought this group ..." Haven't you noticed that
> yet?
>
> -- Troia
How eliquantly put Troia. How's my spelling comming alone?
Dave
== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 3:29 pm
From: "Subdued"
> Fuck off. That is what I have been doing all day. You keep writing message
> after message after message to me, debating me. Cut it out.
>>
> That is sarcasm, was I wrong? That is rhetoric. I really don't enjoy
> talking to you *at all*. I find you *most* unpleasant.
Sticks and stones may break our bones.....! Well we find you to be well....?
Dave
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Energy Policy: was: OT - YKIOK? (politics)
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm/browse_thread/thread/461d2e161a0a2e8b
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 9 2006 3:12 pm
From: Golden California Girls
Bob King wrote:
> Golden California Girls wrote:
>> Bob King wrote:
[snipage]
>
>> Without a distribution system for products we would become just like the rest of
>> the third world. 90% of our surviving population, you do realize 2/3 of us
>> wouldn't be around after the change, would be reduced to subsistence farming.
>> Science and tech would end. We would re-enter the dark ages. Surly you know
>> that "would you like fries with that" isn't going to keep the economy afloat;
>> especially when the fries can't get from the farm to the factory to the fast
>> food outlet!
>
> Indeed. So of course we whould need to prioritise distributive
> transportation. Fortunately we have a system that is already very
> fuel-efficient and could easily switch to biodesel were there adequate
> supplies of it. I'm referring to intermodal freight, of course. truck
> train ship train truck - all in the same container.
>
Interesting. On an individual basis every shipping company does so, simply to
maximize profit. However are you suggesting some clearinghouse where all
shipments are prioritized? Are you sure that UPS will ship FedEx. Or are you
proposing the end of capitalism, which would automatically take us out of the
first world?
>> Nuclear energy is the only long-term solution. There simply isn't enough of
>> anything else available, unless of course you want to kill off a large fraction
>> of the world population of humans. That is another solution by the way.
>
> heh. probably not. Most wars end in a net GAIN of population, though
> you do have your classics, famine and disease.
Population Germany 1939, 79.8 million. Population East + West Germany 1946,
65.1 million.
Population Japan 1940 73.1 million. Population Japan 1945 72.0 million.
Population England 1939 42.2 million. Population England 1946 49.2 million.
USA can't quickly find a figure for 1945 or 1946, but clearly it was up.
It does seem clear thought that the victors gain population where as the losers
decline in population. This being essentially slow paced conventional war,
where the troops can be rotated home every six months to a year to get the women
folk pregnant. Today we have the ability to wage war at an incredibly fast rate
compared to any thing in history. I seriously doubt that anyone would envision
a net gain in population if there was strategic nuclear war. Experts are
talking about the possibility of extinction in such an event.
I'll freely admit 99.9% of the possible small actor groups can't possibly mass
enough effective weapons to kill off even a measurable fraction of the western
population. That is not true in reverse. Also the politics of the use by a
small actor group of a single reasonably effective WMD could cause the loosing
of a large number of effective weapons by the west which would have a large
effect on global population.
In global reality I'm more concerned about India / Pakistan getting out of hand.
A dozen nukes could be exchanged. Due to the high population density there
that would be measurable and no one knows how the global fallout would effect us
over the next several generations.
I'm much less concerned with say Iran / Israel today, because I'm pretty sure
that Iran is convinced that it can't carry out a first strike and not get wiped
off the face of the earth with a second strike. Israel trying a first strike I
could see.
As for North Korea, I could see it being ordered. I don't know if the orders
would actually be carried out if given. I'm convinced that the next level down
from the dictator isn't as insane and knows the country would be glassified as a
result.
>>> And there are a lot of very pure and green solutions that make a lot of
>>> economic sense too, especially factored into co2 emissions markets.
>>> Feeding algae with stack gasses in order to produce biofuels as a
>>> welcome byproduct is an already well-advanced technology, one that is
>>> widely applicable once the basic science and engineering is done.
>> What fraction of the total world energy consumption can this provide? How many
>> existing stacks are convertible to this tech? Remember if it costs more energy
>> to convert than what you get back ...
>
> Well, actually, this approach seems to be very attractive. I've been
> following it loosely, and what it amounts to is a net efficiency gain
> and or slash in production costs. For one thing, a byprodoct of the
> process, after the extraction of the fuel oil from the algae is a solid
> biomass fuel that produces more than enough energy to keep the whole
> process going. It's a process that would not be economical unless there
> were huge volumes of co2 available, but when there are, there you go.
> And currently, that's an unexploited resource.
>
In other words, we don't know yet if 0.01% or 50.0% of smokestacks are
convertible with the technology. At least a score of years off before it
available in mass and another couple of score of years before it is in mass use.
>>> Meanwhile - we should be building solar space arrays. But that will
>>> take billions and billions, as well as the concentration of every
>>> space-capable power to achieve. Well worth doing though, for thousands
>>> of reasons - but probably most importantly as a planetary frontier.
>> You are aware that it requires more energy to make a solar cell than that solar
>> cell produces in its lifetime? And you are going to put it atop billions of
>> greenhouse gas rockets that rip holes in the ozone layer!!
>
> Not speaking of solar cell arrays, actually. A square mile or so of
> mylar and a ceramic thermal engine of some sort would do nicely.
"Some sort" so we have no idea if anything other than a milliwatt lab example
can be built. At least a century away from deployment.
>> SCE's demonstration solar plant near Barstow CA did turn a profit. It wasn't
>> viable because it did close sooner than expected, the liquid sodium loop was a
>> bit more corrosive than expected, and it never made the power cheaper than it
>> could be obtained by other methods. Not saying large scale solar can't be done,
>> but we are a couple of decades away at least. Also are there enough places
>> where the sun shines 300+ full days a year? I don't think transmissions lines
>> from the Sahara Desert count.
>
> There's long running technology demonstrations here in Nevada that are
> far more robust than SCE's - and are now commercially available from at
> least two competing companies. Rather expensive, as they are hand
> built. But it amounts to a parobolic mirror focused on a sterling
> engine, which drives a generator. The generator charges batteries, for
> local use, or feeds into the electricity grid.
The SCE plant IIRC was about 40 megawatts or enough to actually be called a
power plant. Somehow at 100mW/cm2 solar power I just can't imagine a parabolic
mirror big enough to drive a sterling cycle engine that produces more than a few
kW. To get megawatts you need acres of mirror and the SCE mirror design model
seems like the way to go for that.
If you have some idea in your head that every person is going to have a mirror
in their backyard, it ain't going to happen unless you put a gun to the head of
every person. Much less that they will keep the damn things repaired. We need
to stick to reality based solutions.
> I should point out that if you are making energy while the sun shines,
> that means less needs to be produced by other means.
>
> But as the system uses a sterling engine, any source of heat will do,
> so an installation in a remote area could burn diesel, pellet fuel or
> wood if need be. And yes, they do have the add on. :P
>
> Or in other words, you have a generator that can run on pretty much any
> fuel as well as solar, using the same area, investmetn and plant as a
> solar array.
Sterling cycle engines are very nice. I even own a couple. They do tend to get
big quickly with increasing power. Efficiency can't be beat. They do have the
same problem all engines have. They need a cold sink.
Again you seem to be talking about billions of these engines being applied. Not
going to happen without guns at the head of citizens.
>> Some people talk about space mirrors. Assuming the energy needed to heft the
>> mirror isn't more that you can get back ... I'm just wondering what the hell it
>> will do the to weather to have a hot column of air from the mirror's solar
>> energy. Will that spawn violent weather? Not sure this one is such a smart
>> idea, never mind when - not if - the space mirror pointing system goes on the fritz.
>
> Transmission of energy to ground is an issue, fa sure, and I agree, I
> don't think bouncing the light down is a great plan. But one way to
> take caree of it is to put a rectenna array somewhere remote and send
> the energy down via a very very wide beam of microwaves. We may now
> have the capablity to beam power safely at higher energy levels to
> smaller arrays, using some form of demand feedback.
Any form of energy transfer from space to ground runs the risk of the beam going
off course. If the beam isn't extremely concentrated then you need acres of
collector. Finally you have to take that electro magnetic beam and convert it
into power that can be sent out the grid.
If the receiving station is remote, then you have the problem of transmission
loss from the station to the use point.
With all the crap in our computer software today, can you imagine some person
with a chip on their shoulder hacking in to the pointing computer and frying
NYC? We are a long one away on this point alone.
>>> Far more useful than wars to control diminishing oil reserves and use
>>> up the restless and disaffected.
>>>
>>> Oh, and then there's that megavolcano in yellowstone that had BETTER be
>>> examined as an energy resource - with an eye toward keeping it from
>>> boiling over! A volcano with a caldera bigger than vermont strikes me
>>> as something that should be on our national threat radar.
>> We have a lot of geothermal power plants. They all have one problem in common.
>> The pipes corrode so fast they don't make money absent tax credits. Now maybe
>> someone will come up with some sort of ceramic that is flexible enough to make
>> pipes out of. Then long term geothermal might make sense. Right now nuclear
>> energy is cheaper.
>
> Yeah, if we can pry it out of DOD... The flexible ceramic, I mean.
If DOD had it, Northrop would be building geothermal power plants today.
>> As for the big hot spot, in a lot of places where we tap, things get more
>> unpredictable. I don't know if cooling the rock above to make a plug like in
>> the lid of a pressure cooker is such a good idea. Might make the eruption a lot
>> bigger when it happens. Besides, do you really want to see Old Faithful going
>> into a pipe?
>
> Actually, the whole thing is definately stressing at the moment, and
> no, we don't want to screw the plug down. eek. I don't give a frack
> about old faithful, given the alternative. I was thinking more along
> the lines of depressurizing the system in a controlled manner, so that
> if/when it blwos, we have some say in where and what direction.
>
It seems a bit presumptuous to decide to say cool the west side with a bunch of
power (heat) extraction plants in the hope that it blows east first. I don't
think we have the ability to point it in any direction. Way too much is
unknowable about the underground rock to know where the weak spots are, much
less direct where the break will occur. Stay clear seems to be the correct advice.
> A net energy gain would be a bonus.
>> This post is intended to make everyone think before acting. There is a lot more
>> going on in the system than just burning oil. It is fully as complex as Laffer
>> curves are to economic theory. Anything less than a double thickness phone book
>> study should be dismissed as uninformed drivel - including this post. In any
>> case if you are going to propose solutions to a problem that may not exist you
>> damn well better know the solution isn't worse than the problem. [Should be
>> somebodies law!]
>
> Oh, it's probably more complex than that. It's not just the thigns we
> know we can't predict, it's the things we don't know ... god. I almost
> quoted Rumsfeld. Of course, he should have paid attention to his own
> facile ass.
>
> This is a chaotic situation, and the way a chaotic sytem is managed is
> to not worry so much about the complexity. Rather, you address what you
> can, where you can, and observe, then based on that observation, you do
> the next thing. Three things in, you are nowhere familiar doing things
> you couldn't have predicted using means you didn't know before, but
> that's ok.
>
> It's a bitch for them five year plans, though.
>
> What we do know is that there are a ton of very compelling reasons to
> dump the oil habit, asap.
Sure thing. We can't go off thinking that every person on the planet is going
to have some sort of power plant that they have to tend to though. 99.999% are
going to have to buy their power from a mass produced source. Liquid power is
very convenient for mobile uses. Electric power for stationary ones. Once
battery tech catches up electric may be favorable for mobile use. Economy of
scale is very necessary.
> There are a ton of even better reasons to consider livable alternatives
> to the way we build housing now. Lots are well-proven, they just need a
> damn variance every time they are used and you can't get your equity
> out in many cases. That issue could be addressed tomorrow and it would
> start changing things by next week. Simply changing building codes and
> doing things like, say, mandatiting waste-water recycling in arid areas
> would save tons and tons of energy and water.
>
> I just read somethnig else that astonished me. Wild grasses produce a
> great deal more biomass than any tame crop, including corn. I wish I
> had the cite, I ment to blog it but didn't. Anyway, it was an
> accidental discovery by scientests looking for something else entirely.
>
> Moreover, the greatest amount of that biomass stays underground,
> improving the soil and fixing carbon, so that in some (longish) while,
> it can be farmed again. All this without any massive soil-reclamation
> effort, I might add.
>
> What it boils down to though is that it's economical even on exausted
> farmland.
I believe this has been known for many thousands of years. Look up legumes in wiki.
>You can reaise grass, harvest once or twice a year and
> ferment them for ethonol, in a process that is strongly carbon-negative
> instead of break-even or slightly carbon-positive as with corn. Jt
> takes up no existing farm land, so you can grow stuff people want to
> eat, instead of corn. (we have way, way too many acres of corn in
> production, hence ethonol schemes and high-fructose corn syrup in
> everything.
>
> No fertilizer and little or no fuel is expended in raising the crop. If
> you were really anal about it, you could harvest with horses.
You are nuts. A horse makes green house gas at a much higher rate per year than
a farm tractor including every bit needed in making the tractor and shipping it
to the farm! Look it up!
> But along the way, we should be looking at the economies of community
> living - with a wide variation of communities that have as much energy
> and food self-sufficency as possible. I'm not talking lo-tech, either.
> I'm talking about very smart communities, with green buildings
> (literally) producing algal biofuels and fresh food as a byproduct of
> their climate control systems.
>
> Interesting factoid - did you know that Bejing produces something like
> thirty percent of it's produce from rooftop and balcony gardens?
> Transportaton cost, near zero. Cities have tons of waste heat and co2,
> so it's advantagious. Of course, i'd want to wash them veggies real
> good.
Have you heard the phrase "Victory Garden?" First world populations are first
world because most of them don't farm, they consume. Take that time away from
them and they don't need World of Warcraft!
> Anyhoo, the point I'm making is that there are huge net gains that can
> be made with tiny changes that most people will either never notice, or
> actually prefer. Example - the widespread use of biodigester technology
> to manage human and animal waste - currently a huge problem worldwide,
> with huge associated costs.
>
> Biodigesters get rid of the waste and produce both fuel (methane) and
> high-grade fertilizer exactly where it's needed - near any
> concentration of pooping food consumers.
>
> One thing about anything that's carbon positive and or waste intense is
> that it's evidence of an inefficiency that has room for a great deal of
> profit.
Just love the local dispute. Farms in Kern County want to buy processed poop
from Los Angeles county waste water treatment plant. LA wants to sell it, even
give it away. Politicians in Kern County forbid it. NIMBY! No poop on crops
anymore. Might get an e-coli outbreak and we can't bother to wash our fresh
vegetables anymore! This is called reality. Propose solutions that address
this and they will work. Anything else is called pipe dream. So sorry to be
the cold wet rag.
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